How many hours do you guys work (on creative projects)- and is it enough?

Recently this one tweet has been stirring up a bunch of takes around 3D art, and what it takes to be a professional in the field. It’s in reponse to a tweet saying to “Shock me with the harshest reality truth”.

Honestly, this doesn’t seem like that cruel of a take. Given current industry conditions, entry-level 3D artists are being demanded a level of skill that you cannot reach on just 6 hours of good work each day. On the surface its a very cold take to me, many creatives are in a field that is abundant with applicants, each one desparate enough that they’ll accept less pay than the next guy to get in. Meanwhile senior level artists and developers have been left stranded by the numerous lay-offs and studio closures whether that be in animation, TV, movies, or video games. In a normal world, an entry-level applicant would not be fighting with these mid and senior level applicants for job positions, but unfortunately right now it is the employer’s market. Studios can demand more, for less, and there will be someone willing enough to take it.

And in this current environment Sanden’s point is that you need to do more to make yourself stand out.

It’s a similar sentiment I’ve heard in the programming world too. There’s this general idea that if you want to make it as a programmer, you need to not only go through college, but find an internship, build a small start up, make your own website, and on top of that make regular contributions to open source. There might be some truth in that, sure doing at least one if not multiple of those things will make you a strong candidiate, but many find that its not enough, and even still with all these credentials they find their application met with silence.

I think the reality is somewhere in the middle. The average person must do more. It is not fair. It should not be this way. And even if you play by those rules and get in the door, you are still likely to work for a studio that will cut you or shutter its doors with very little warning.

It should be noted that Sanden is one of the creators behind the site “Flipped Normals”, which sells production resources for 3D studios, and also courses. In this way, as a teacher Sanden would have some understanding of where students are. But as a course seller, he has a potential interest in creating demand for the courses on his site. Is the above tweet where he says “eduational quality [is] leaving much to be desired”, trying to get people to learn from his website instead? That he is the one to be trusted over others? I don’t necessarily think so. He isn’t directly plugging his website here, its not even in his account tag, so I dont think this is coming from a place of greed. But I still found it worth pointing out.


For me personally, I had entered university five years ago expecting a difficult job market on my way out. I had thought it better to study computer science, instead of an art field such as 3D modeling or animation. Instead, I ended up witnessing the tech bubble start to pop as numerous tech companies began laying off employees at record breaking amounts, month after month and year after year. So instead of trying to make it into either industry on credentials alone, I wanted to make myself stand out and try to make it on merit. So I left school, started learning 3D art, and I became an indie.

I’m lucky that I live with my family and that I do not currently have a real job, although the latter might change soon. I have been able to make my personal ends meet over the past year by taking 3D art commissions, which is allowing me to essentially get paid for my studies. But even then, as I charge $1K USD for a from-scratch 3D vtuber model, the hourly rate I end up paying myself for my work is barely minimum wage. I had undercut myself so severely that one recent project earned $4 USD an hour.

For context, the average starting price for a similar model is at $2K USD, although I haven’t put myself at that pricepoint yet as I feel like I haven’t earned it yet. I’ve been studying a lot over the past four months to cross that gap, and I think im nearly there.

The issue is that the work that I can do to make myself a better artist is not always work that I can get paid for. A lot of it is not commissionable. A lot of it cannot be turned into content either. So I have a lot of practical gaps in my knowledge, important fundamentals I’ve glossed over in order to produce something flashy for an algorithm. I’ve been on hiatus from content creation and streaming since the start of the year to mend these gaps, but I’ll need to return soon to make ends meet.

So I’m here, as a beginner 3D artist who has been studying and making art for the better half of three years. I work upwards of 10 hours a day, usually six days a week, and I’m still ending each day with the anxious feeling that I need to do more. I know there are plenty of areas of studies that I need to improve, and I’ve built out plans for myself to study those and even bought courses that I don’t have time to take fully.

Despite this I am happy with my own work. I feel pride. I know that I have done a lot to make myself standout from other indie 3D artists that have been in the game longer than I have. I don’t beat myself up about things, even though it would be so easy to do so. I know I have a long way to go, and that even then success is less than guaranteed, but despite that I’ll keep putting in my hours each day in hopes that one day I do end up making it.

So what’s your guys’ story? Where are you in your journey and, do you think you’ll make it? Are you hoping your indie game pops off and you can start a studio, or are you just biding time until you get hired in the industry?

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If you look at where we are as a species today, it’s really incredible. Among other things, we know how to produce incredible amounts of food, build impressive structures that can weather the elements, and manipulate our biology to extend life. We live in a world where it is technically possible to provide basic needs to every living person on Earth.

So, this kind of conversation – where the “failures” of people are focused on rather than the failures of the economic system – is a little annoying to me. We have systemic problems, and you cannot solve systemic issues purely through one’s own individual effort.

Of course, unfortunately, such advice is not incorrect. The industry is incredibly competitive and it will take a lot of extra work to make it. But for every person that grinds sleeplessly and gets lucky enough to make a living doing this work, why is it that we leave so many behind who cannot sustain themselves even though we… could? I think this is the real issue here, and it’s a shame.

Sure, I know we’re talking about working in entertainment, but even outside of the entertainment industry, there is plenty of work that I’m sure many of us would be happy to do to keep the lights on. There is no shortage of worthwhile problems in the world to work on. The problem is that the system we live in doesn’t reward such productivity – it only rewards that which can extract surplus value.

When I last looked for a job in software, it felt like the only work I could find were for places that only actively made the world a worse place. I think many of my peers have experienced the same.

I worked in small tech companies for most of my career, saving up money to try doing independent work. It’s my second try to make a living as an independent indie dev. My last work broke even and made a few thousand – but nothing close to what’s needed for me to sustain myself. Thankfully, due to my savings and significant support from my family, I’m able to continue chasing this dream for now. I’m very fortunate to be able to.

I’m not terribly interested in starting a studio, getting published, or getting hired in the industry. Of course, I wouldn’t be opposed if the opportunity was right. But my real goal is just to sustain myself enough that I can make exactly what I want to make, forever. I’ve done the numbers and I know how much I need to make to make this happen. Somehow, it both is and is not a terribly large sum of money, and I’m optimistic and cynical that I’ll make it.

What’s different now after my last game is that I feel like I’ve finally figured out what the intersection is between what people want to buy and what I want to make, so I’m really excited to see what’s to come. No one will ever stop me from making my pizzas videogames!

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I don’t know, I worked my ass off in college and it didn’t pay off for me. My last semester of college I did two internships while taking a full course load and working 20 hours a week at a part time job in the industry I was try to get into, and in the end I still didn’t end up getting the job I wanted. I ended up pivoting to a different career path that I didn’t really have any interest in because there wasn’t as much competition, and I’ve been doing the creative stuff on the side to keep me sane.

Nowadays, I would say in an average week I get about 10 hours of work in on my side projects, unless I’m on PTO, then I treat it like my full time job until I have to go back to the 9-5. It means everything takes longer than I want it to, but at least I keep the lights on.

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